MY OPINON of FTDS vs wizardkoli, Naruto vs Goku, etc Debate
by stonemine19
Summary: Read Introduction Inside
1. Introduction

Introduction:

To my Reviewers and Readers,

Hello, this is my first fanfic and you can see, I am doing a fanfic about my OPINON, NOT a stat sheet about the arguements used in the debate between FTDS and wizardkoli1. First let me tell you a few things about my self:

I am 17 years old.

I live in the USA.

I like both Dragonball, Dragonball Z, etc and Naruto.

I watched most of Naruto anime and read most of naruto manga.

I never watched any series of dragonball and only read some of dragonball manga so I guess you could call me a Narutard

I am a little biased toward Naruto.

I will be using material from, including but not limited to, movies, anime, manga,youtube, naruto and dragonball wiki, Vsbattle wiki,OBD battle wiki, Naruto the Stat Sheets, Narutoverse vs Dragonballverse The REAL STATS Sheet etc.

Thanks for reading and review please. I ask flamers, people who flame at fanfics, to please use as little profanity as possible.

I have a few Questions for you guys. I need to know what counts as filller and what counts as canon and why for both Naruto and Dragonball. Also, I welcome questions, suggestions, etc to improve this fanfic

If there is anything else I need to add, please PM me. I look forward to all you guys and girls review my fanfic, even flamers.


	2. Key Terms

Before I start my fanfic, I, along with my readers and reviewers, may need to know the key terms basically in Naruto and Dragonball so that we all are the same page. If there is anything wrong with my definitons of key terms, need to add more key terms, etc, please review or PM me

 **dragonball neoseeker wiki canon:**

Canon

The term canon refers to everything that is created by either the original creator, or current head of the series, unless otherwise noted. This is the universal definition of what canon means. In Asia, and especially Japan however, concern over canon and non canon is not so much of an issue over there with their media creations. Akira Toriyama never specified what is canon or non canon, as it seemed like something he was not concerned with. Because of this fact, we are left to use, by default, the technical, universal definition of what canon is.

With that universal factual definition, in Dragonball's case, canon is everything that is in the manga created by Akira Toriyama. If it isn't in the manga it is non canon.

[edit]Non Canon

The term non canon refers to two main things:

1\. Anything that was not created by, not originally thought of by, or had very minimal involvement with Toriyama. (Unless otherwise specified)

2\. Anything that is not in the manga.

The DB and DBZ movies and all of GT are examples of non canon. Although Toriyama helped a bit here and there on some of them, and even designed some of the characters (Broli for example), the original ideas for the movies were created by Toei, not by Toriyama. He had minimal involvement, and some of the movies he had zero involvement. Not only that, but the plots and settings of most of the movies contradict the series/manga timeline and events out right. The movies and GT do not have mangas.

Anime Filler in Dragonball and Dragonball Z is also non canon as most of it also either had minimal involvement from Toriyama, or none at all, and is not in the manga.

[edit]Exceptions

There are a couple of exceptions to these rules of canon and non canon. As stated earlier, **unless otherwise specified** , works for a series not created by the original creator or current rightful owner of the series are considered non canon. Toriyama did do this in one instance. Bardock was originally created by Toei for the Bardock special, a non canon telling of Gokus father's last days alive. Originally Toei created very different depictions of Bardock and his crew (Anyone have the picture?), but Toriyama came in and re-designed Bardock and his crew to the familiar faces we all know. Toriyama liked Bardock's character so much he put Bardock in a couple of panels in the manga, making his character canon. The Bardock special itself remains non canon over all.

The Trunks special is a canon special although created by Toei, the events of the Trunks special did happen in the manga. Toei basically followed the story of what happened in the manga, but put it in a special instead of a part of the series. They changed a few details around, such as when and how Trunks went SSJ, but for the most part sticked to the canon story.

The Trunks Special being canon is the same thing as the Toei animated anime being canon, minus filler and changed dialogue

 **Dragon Ball Wiki Power Level**

The **power level** (戦闘力, _Sentō Ryoku_ ; literally "combat power" or "fighting strength"), referred to as **Battle Point** / **Battle Power** (BP) in video games and manga, is a concept found in the _Dragon Ball_ franchise created by Akira Toriyama. It is first introduced in _Dragon Ball_ , where a young Goku learns to sense _ki_ after drinking the Ultra Divine Water, although the Z Fighters are able to detect power levels via the _ki_ sensing ability eventually.

The actual term " _Power Level_ " usually refers to readings produced by scouters, which are sensory devices used by Frieza's crew that detect a person's ki. The reading is converted into numbers of an unspecified unit, and the resulting number is the "Power Level", or an estimation of that person's physical capability. However, other types of devices like Babidi's ki detection device can also produce numbers based on detection of ki, but these readings are generally not referenced by fans. Power Level is generally an ambiguous term that describes the concept of physical ability.

Contents [show]

Scouter Levels

The highest number ever officially read aloud from a scouter is Captain Ginyu's reading of Goku's power level, which after powering up, is 180,000. Till 2015 the highest power level ever mentioned in _Dragon Ball Z_ is Frieza's power level of 1,000,000, stated by Frieza himself after transforming into his Second form; in that same year when Resurrection 'F'came out where the newly revived Frieza again stated that if he'll push himself to train for the next 4 months, he'll reach a power level of 1,300,000 as an achievement, which is not so high considering the later power levels shown in the franchise. The highest power level ever officially stated in the _Daizenshuu_ guides is Super Saiyan Goku's power level of 150,000,000 while battling Frieza on Namek. The overall highest power level officially stated was 100,000,000,000,000,000,000 of Golden Frieza stated in a interview with Akira Toriyama.[1]

Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods - Uncut Version [HD]

Use

Super Saiyan 2 Goku raises his power level

The use of power levels is to get an estimation of how a battle will fare between two opponents of known power levels. In general, if one has a higher power level than one's opponent, then he/she can defeat the one with the weaker power level. For example, "Person A" has a fighting power of 10,000 and "Person B" has a fighting power of 5,000. "Person A" can most certainly defeat "Person B". However, the factors of speed, strength, and technique can also come into account when deciding the outcome of a fight.

It should be noted that, when factoring in the edge a fighter has over an opponent, the difference in power levels as a flat number is apparently not important, but rather, the relative or percentage difference between the power levels of the two combatants. The power levels read by scouters led members of the Galactic Frieza Army to constantly underestimate the Z Fighters in battle. Also, a stronger power level does not always mean that fighter will always win.

Changes in power levels

In general, the power level of a regular person in the _Dragon Ball_ universe seems to remain pretty constant throughout his/her life. Power levels can be increased, usually very slowly, through intense training or by some other special means. Some people are able to increase their power levels faster than others; the most clear example of this is Goku or Gohan. Power levels can be lowered when the fighter's psychical condition decreases, such as injury and exhaustion.

Goku removes his weighted clothing, boosting his power level to battle against Raditz (DBZ Kai)

The power level of most people is usually the same independent of the fact that they are resting or powered-up. However, there are several important exceptions. The most common way to increase one's power-level temporarily during a fight is for races or characters that are able totransform into different shapes and alter their external appearance. Examples include Saiyans(who transform into Great Apes and Super Saiyans), Zarbon, and Frieza. There are also some people that have learned the skill to change their apparent power level at will, using a Power Uptechnique. This allows them to suppress their power level when they wish to appear weaker, to be undetected or to conserve energy, and to increase their power levels to their maximum during a fight. Namekians and highly trained earthlings (such as the Z Fighters) seem to be examples of races that are able to do this with most ease, though Saiyans are also shown to be able to learn this ability. Other characters known to possess this ability are Captain Ginyu and Frieza, whose races are unknown. Z Fighters wear weighted training clothes as part of Kami's intense training, which also suppresses their full strength until they take them off. Some beings like Cell, Majin Buu, andNaturon Shenron possess the ability to absorb others to increase their power level.

Dr. Brief created a device that allows the user to train under higher levels of gravity to raise their power levels.

The movie _Dragon Ball Z: The Tree of Might_ introduces the Fruit of the Tree of Might, a special fruit that gives who ever consumes it a massive power increase, giving those who have access to it a shortcut in obtaining a greater power level with minimal effort.

Saiyans possess a unique ability called Zenkai that allows them to easily increase their permanent power level. When they are left almost dead but are able to recover, they increase their maximum level and gain a great amount of power. The first character to display this in the series is Vegeta. However, it should be noted that it is implied (as part of the series' retroactive continuity) that Goku displayed this ability as well during his youth in the _Dragon Ball_ series (when Vegeta mentions the ability during his second fight with Zarbon, and Krillin explains that the same thing used to happen to Goku whenever he survived a fierce battle of the same caliber). This ability also extends to Half-Saiyans, like Gohan. When fighting strong opponents, Saiyans increase their fighting power as the fight drags on; as Goku did against Beerus.

The average Human power level is near 5, with exceptionally skilled Humans such as Master Roshi, Krillin or Namhaving power levels over that of 100. It's implied that there's a large margin of strength between each level, as Goku was able to crush boulders with his bare hands with a power level of 10, being only twice as strong as the average human.

Characters that have mixed Saiyan and human blood seem to display special abilities regarding power levels. They are able to reach high levels much faster than other races. Their power level at a given time also fluctuates a lot depending on their emotional state. Intense rage, for example, can make characters like Gohan or Goku Jr. increase their power level significantly for a limited amount of time.

Thank you for reading and please review


	3. My Opinon of Wizardkoli1'sFanfic CH1Arg1

If there is anything wrong with my reasoning, please leave a review and PM me

"Naruto's birthparents were Minato Namikaze (the 4th Hokage) and Kushina Uzumaki which alone is a silver-platter handed matter. From birth, he was handed unprecedented chakra reserves due to his mother's side of the family, while he gained an adeptness for battle from his father's side."

I agree with this statement

"Goku's father was Bardock who was shown to be a low-class Saiyan and who was treated as a slave due to Frieza's ruling. His mother was a mere cook (from the manga: Dragon Ball Minus) so she had nothing to do with his godly reserves like how Naruto's reserves came from Kushina. Goku became the strongest Saiyan of all time because of his hard-work and training. He didn't inherit anything from his birthparents."

Excuse me but doesn't being a saiyan counts as inheriting something form his birthparents because, correct me if I am wrong, the weakest naturally born on the planet of Saiyan saiyan who was Raditz shown was already moon level to planet while the strongest humans like Krillin and Tien had to work toward the end of the series to get past that level and even at the end of the series, krillin the second strongest human was still, to put it bluntly, below Bardock, Goku's father. I might be wrong but doesn't the Saiyans have many broken abilities due to their genes like (Dragon Ball Wiki Saiyan):

Saiyans, at least as adults, are resistant to extreme temperatures, far more so than humans, as evidenced by Bardock going into outer space to face Frieza for the last time, Broly surviving being frozen in a glacier, and Goku training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and facing Lord Slug's minions when they and Lord Slug used a machine to cause the Earth's climate to get very, very cold.

The tail also provides a unique gift in that it allows a Saiyan to transform into a Great Ape if exposed to the Blutz Waves of a full moon. If the tail is removed, this power is lost. All Saiyans have the ability for their tail to grow back, unless it is permanently removed. Goku once stated that he feels stronger than before when his tail grows back.[21] Gohan's tail grows back during the fight with Vegeta, notably when the artificial moon was present.[22] Vegeta once stated that his tail will grow back after it was cut off by Yajirobe, however, it does not grow back until his Super Saiyan 4 transformation in Dragon Ball GT. The Daizenshuu description is that the tail will often suddenly grow back if the Saiyan is in danger. Tails also provide a boost in Super Saiyan transformations, as during the time when Goku was shrunk into a child in Dragon Ball GT, during the Baby Saga, he had trouble maintaining his transformations until his tail reformed, to the point where he was able to activate Super Saiyan 3 for a decent amount of time (along with his tail glowing gold). Despite its appearance, the tails of Saiyans are just as strong as their limbs, giving them in a sense an extra hand to fight with.

Saiyans naturally possess exceptional strength, far greater than that of humans and other alien races, and are quintessentially built for fighting; the average Saiyan is said to have a power of 400 to 660 by Dragon Ball Z: The Anime Adventure Game (though, in their base form, warriors can have a power level of 1,200 to 18,000). They are capable of easily lifting ten times their own weight (before receiving Master Roshi's training, Goku was already able to lift Bulma's car at the mere age of twelve). The naturally high gravity of Planet Vegeta (10x that of Earth) develops their strength, further making them incredibly strong at young ages. Even weaker Saiyans are capable of conquering most planets alone. Due to their insane levels of strength, they are easily able to destroy mountains, islands, and potentially entire planets just with pure physical strength, especially in the Super Saiyan states. For example, during Goku's battle with Kid Buu, the planet they were fighting on was warping and contracting with each blow and would have destroyed it if not for the Sacred World of the Kais indestructible nature.

Through tough training, Saiyans are able to reach new levels of power, and the more intense training and fights they go through, the stronger they become. If a Saiyan survives a near-death experience through extreme injury to the body, then, when the body recuperates, the Saiyan grows much stronger than they were previously, their body adapting to compensate for the damage dealt. The duration of recovery does not seem to hinder this ability as Saiyans have healed through natural, technological and mystical means and still gained substantial increases in strength. Saiyans also appear able to heal from injuries at a faster rate than normal humans and possess a greater deal of durability to damage.

Saiyans also possess a natural affinity to the manipulation of ki energy allowing them to utilize flying and energy-based attacks with incredible ease as well as unlock great depths of power when needed, or lending energy to others in battle when it is actually necessary. Lost energy is regained by the Saiyan in a very short span of time, regardless of the amount of energy lost. Sometimes, the energy the Saiyan regained is multiplied, as noted by their power level. One of the best examples of this ability is the fights between Vegeta and Zarbon. In their first encounter, Vegeta was able to dominate Zarbon, but after Zarbon transformed, he was unable to defeat him. However, after the near-death experience, Vegeta was able to fight and kill Zarbon even in his transformed state.

The Saiyans also have great speed and agility. They also have much faster reflexes than an average Human; reflexes so fast that they can avoid a bullet without much of a problem. Super speed can easily be seen in their fighting skills; their movements occur in fractions of seconds which are not visible to average Human eyes. Their agility is also substantial in their battles and training. These movements can be improved by training, transformations, and other methods. These natural powers of speed and reflex make nearly all Saiyan hand-to-hand combat very fast. The strongest Saiyans can move so quickly that even King Kai, who can easily track Attack Ball's traveling at Faster-than-Light speeds, can't keep up with them. Gotenks also showed the ability to travel the entire Earth several times over before stopping to take a nap, showing an ability to go faster than light if the situation shows it.

Saiyans are a remarkably resilient species, they refuse to be physically broken. Vegeta walked away from a powerful explosion that rocked his Capsule corp training pod with relatively minor injuries, and survived a head on collision with Goku's Spirit Bomb, Goku survived bullet shots, falling off a cliff and hitting his head, Piccolo's devastating attacks, Frieza's Death Beam to the face as a Super Saiyan and a whole host of other injuries.

Saiyans are considered for the most part to be of comparable intelligence to humans. Goku's head trauma and sheltered childhood left him unenlightened about anything not concerning martial arts, though he gradually outgrows this as his teachers all stressed the values of brains over brawn. Due to a Saiyan's strength, their level of cunning is generally downplayed, unless their strength is below average, like Raditz. Perhaps as a byproduct of their speed and reflexes, Saiyans are also abnormally quick learners, able to process large amounts of information within a limited amount of time. This can be seen when Goku was able to use the Kamehameha after seeing it just once and Vegeta taught himself how to sense energy despite being reliant on scouters for most of his career. Despite being a race of barbarians, Saiyans have no trouble adapting to new technology. It is unknown if Saiyan aptitudes carry onto their hybrid children, as the intelligence of all Saiyan hybrids has been shown to be products of their upbringing (Gohan was privately tutored, Trunks grew up in a family of scientists etc.). Saiyans also have very good memory, even from the time they were babies. This was evident when Raditz meets Goku and expects him to remember his brother and his mission only to discover Goku suffered from amnesia due to a severe concussion as an infant.

According to the Daizenshuu, Saiyan's lifespan is about the same as an average Human (70 to 90 years, with exceptions, of course), but keep in their peak longer. Unlike Humans, Saiyans remain in their youth and prime much longer. As explained by Vegeta near the end of Dragon Ball Z, they stay young longer because they live for and are built for battle.[26] This is seen when Nappa, who was Vegeta's attendant when Vegeta was a child, is in his prime still long after Vegeta has become an adult, but in actuality, Nappa is roughly 50 years old during his arrival on Earth.[27] Chi-Chi complained of this in Dragon Ball GT when Goku was reduced to a child, thus making the fact that she was getting older faster that much more apparent.[28] This is again demonstrated in the GT finale when Pan is seen one hundred years later still strong, but with gray hair despite being only a quarter Saiyan.[29][30] Their natural lifespan itself is longer than humans', but since they are a warrior race, many of them die in battle, and their average lifespan is not all that long.[4]

As evidenced in Dragon Ball, Saiyans have a very keen sense of smell. When Goku and Krillin are looking for the rock that Roshi had thrown into the jungle, Goku is able to smell the rock which had Roshi's scent. Goku even claims his sense of smell is similar to that of a dog's (which is far superior to that of a human).[36] This later worked against him when he met Bacterian; because Bacterian had never bathed or brushed his teeth in his life, the smell was so horrible that Goku nearly passed out. Another instance is when he is able to smell Roshi when Goku and his friends are searching for him at the 21st World Martial Arts Tournament. Goku also uses this ability to track down the thief that steals his belongings in the episode Pilaf and the Mystery also seem to have keen eyesight. When Goku and Bulma see Turtle returning with Master Roshi on his back, Goku is able to clearly make them out at a distance when Bulma could not, with Bulma even remarking, "It's like you've got super vision or something."[37]

Super Saiyan: The most powerful ability of a Saiyan, however, is the ability to drastically augment their speed, strength and energy by transforming into a Super Saiyan. The ability is rare and difficult to achieve normally, but gives the Saiyan unbelievable enhancements to their normal abilities. Saiyans possess several Super Saiyan transformations, each different in appearance and the power they provide. For the majority of the Super Saiyan forms, the Saiyans muscle mass increases slightly, their irises turn bluish-green and their hair turns golden in color. There are additional transformations beyond Super Saiyan, and variations thereon.

Healing: After a Saiyan is healed from a great injury, it has been said by Vegeta numerous times that they will become stronger. This power increase is known as Zenkai(Dragonball wiki ): After drinking the Ultra Divine Water and almost dying, Goku presumably got a strength upgrade from not just the water's powers, but also from a Zenkai. He also possibly got one after his near death encounter with King Piccolo. During the Namek and Frieza Sagas, Zenkai is an extremely important element of the series, which allows Goku and Vegeta's powers to increase in order to "catch up" to Frieza and his men. After the Frieza Saga, most of the Saiyans had already become Super Saiyans. In the Cell Saga, when Cell returned from his botched self-destruction on King Kai's planet, his power amplified to the point that high amounts of energy surrounded his body to mimic the aura of a Super Saiyan 's power seems to increase exponentially after each use. When Vegeta recovers from his first fight with Goku, his power level went from 18,000 to 24,000, and another was received after being nearly killed by Zarbon's transformed state and healed in a Medical Machine, which the Daizenshuu estimates to have augmented his strength to roughly 30,000. After Vegeta was again near-fatally injured after fighting Recoome, his strength strangely skyrockets enough to have an even power struggle with Frieza's first form (stated to be 530,000), and another, final Zenkai increased his power enough to see Frieza's movements and Death Beams at first, before he begins to put in even more effort. While the dub incorrectly implies that Zenkais only occur with Elite Saiyans, Goku, whom Vegeta and Nappa repeatedly refer to as low-level trash ("clown" in the dubbed anime), receives them many times. This is confirmed by how Krillin states that it was weird how Goku always seemed to grow ever stronger after recovering from fighting devastating battles against powerful foes, how Goku is able to learn and tap into the power of Zenkai's during his gravity training (which in total boosted his power from "over 8,000" to 90,000 in the Namek Saga), and how Goku's power again receives an enormous boost after recovering in a Medical Machine from his battle with Captain Ginyu (Goku's power level having increased from 90,000 to 3,000,000).[3] To force a boost in power during the battle with Frieza, Vegeta tells Krillin to brutally injure him and have Dende heal him, which after greatly increased his power, though still not nearly enough to defeat the space experiences a Zenkai upon eating a Senzu Bean in the movie Dragon Ball Z: Cooler's Revenge. In Dragon Ball Z: Broly - The Legendary Super Saiyan, it is stated that Broly survived his execution and grew stronger due to his Saiyan genes. In Dragon Ball Z: Broly - Second Coming, it is implied that Broly grew significantly stronger while in a coma for seven years after being beaten by Goku and recovering.

Great Ape: Their tail also grants a Saiyan special transformations. Though a painful weak-spot for lower-class Saiyans (most upper-class Saiyans appear to have trained to eliminate the weakness), the tail allows a Saiyan to transform into a giant Great Ape beast with tremendous power when looking at a full moon. The Saiyan grows incredibly in size and tenfold in strength while drastically changing in appearance. If the tail is removed, this ability is lost. In this state, some Saiyans have limited control, but their aggressiveness is at its peak and they often become mindless animals fueled by destructive rage.A Great Ape's power level is equal to the Saiyan's power level prior to the transformation multiplied by ten (though in Dragon Ball Z: Kyōshū! Saiyan it instead multiplies it by four).


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